This interview was originally recorded on September 5th, 2019.
The Oral History Project is supported by the Arthur F. and Alice E. Adams Charitable Foundation.

Greer Grimsley, bass-baritone

Grammy-nominated bass-baritone Greer Grimsley is internationally acclaimed for his powerful portrayals of Wagner’s iconic characters, particularly as Wotan in Der Ring des Nibelungen, a role he has performed at the Metropolitan Opera, Deutsche Oper Berlin, Teatro Comunale di Bologna, Gran Teatre del Liceu, and Seattle Opera, where he has starred in three complete Ring cycles. A celebrated singing actor with a commanding stage presence, Grimsley has also earned praise for signature roles including the title role in Der fliegende Holländer, Jochanaan in Salome, Scarpia in Tosca, and Don Pizarro in Fidelio. This season, he returns to the Met as the Commander in the house premiere of Jeanine Tesori’s Grounded, reprises Scarpia at Shreveport Opera, performs Siegfried’s Wotan at The Atlanta Opera, and stars in Der fliegende Holländer with the Fort Worth Symphony.

A frequent presence on major international stages, Grimsley has appeared at the Bayreuth Festival, San Francisco Opera, Royal Danish Opera, New National Theatre Tokyo, and Oper Köln, among many others. He has also performed with leading orchestras including the New York Philharmonic, Atlanta Symphony, and Seattle Symphony, and has been featured in world premieres by Jake Heggie and others.

Transcript

Marc A. Scorca: Welcome to the National Opera Center. Please welcome Greer Grimsley to the stage of the Opera Center. Welcome, so good to see you. I've had the pleasure of knowing Greer for many, many years when I had hair and yours was dark. As you know, I always start my interviews with the question of who brought you to your first opera?

Greer Grimsley: Well, I brought myself in a weird way. I was fascinated with theater and music in high school, and I didn't see my first opera until I was a junior in high school. And they called my drama club in New Orleans, where I grew up, (and) the New Orleans Opera was doing an opera, and they wanted to know if any of us in the drama club wanted to be extras. And we were thinking about it, and then they said, "Well, we'll pay you 10 bucks". And we went, "Okay". So, we went down and oddly enough, it was a very historic set of performances, because it was Richard Tucker performing the role of Eléazar in La Juive, and I believe it was the only time that he ever performed that role in the United States, and it was an eye-opening experience. And I think that's when I started thinking about opera. Up until that point, I was a music theater guy. I thought that would be a nice thing to do, but seriously thinking about majoring in archeology as I was headed towards college. And that was my first experience with opera.

Marc A. Scorca: And how great to see Richard Tucker. I think that was actually the last stage production of his life. I think he passed away very soon after that. Now, I'm always fascinated, you talk about being in high school and certainly in our research about the careers of opera singers, it's frequently the high school choral teacher or the high school music teacher, who first realizes that a young singer has a real voice. Was that the case for you, that it was a high school choral teacher, a music teacher who said to you, "You know, you've got something going there".

Greer Grimsley: You're absolutely right. And Mr. Cunningham, my choral conductor/teacher, heard me singing in one of the musicals and said, "You know, we need basses and I think you have a good voice". And up until that point, I was playing trumpet in the band, and that (singing) sounded interesting to me. And so I pursued that and that's how I got into the sort of more classical side of it.

Marc A. Scorca: You have this incredible speaking voice. When you were in high school, did your voice kind of appear naturally? Did this sound just come out of you?

Greer Grimsley: Yes. That was the bane of my young singer existence, is that people didn't believe that how I produced my sound happened. I needed physically to grow into what this sounded like, because in high school I was mostly feet and nose.

Marc A. Scorca: Background: family involved with music at all?

Greer Grimsley: Nothing.

Marc A. Scorca: Or with natural voices?

Greer Grimsley: My dad had a very deep and present, very commanding voice, and he played the guitar and occasionally would sing along, but he would never really sort of belt out; he would just lightly sing along.

Marc A. Scorca: So, there is interest in music theater. You go and you're an extra in La Juive, and a light bulb goes off and you say, "Wait, there's a sound here".

Greer Grimsley: I mean, I sort of figured out, "Okay, I can sing". I know that. And at the time that I was growing up...I am a child of the 70's, and at that point I was listening to everything: musicals, rock. And so I knew, just by singing along with the songs of Black Sabbath that I liked at the time, that something didn't sound right. And also, when I hit my senior year, and I was in choir, a very dear friend, and my first voice teacher, Anthony Laciura...

Marc A. Scorca: Really?

Greer Grimsley: Yes. Those of you who know Anthony, hopefully from more things than Boardwalk Empire, but he said, "You know, I think you could sing opera". And he was the one that planted that idea. I mean, I was headed to looking for artifacts in a pit someplace; it still is a hobby, somewhat of mine, and I love history, but he was the one that said, "Let's do a few lessons along the way", and then he encouraged me to audition for Loyola, which I did, and I was accepted, and that pretty much put me on that path. At that point, I didn't vary so much. I mean, I took respites to make money along the way, as everybody did. But that was thanks to Anthony, and he sort of pointed me in that direction.

Marc A. Scorca: How fabulous; that's a great connection.

Greer Grimsley: And every time I see him, I say, "You're responsible for my life".

Marc A. Scorca: I'm sure he is very proud of that.

Greer Grimsley: Yeah.

Marc A. Scorca: So, as I read the various bios of you...lots of times when I interview singers, there's a list of competition wins and young artist programs, and I didn't see that. And either it's because your credits of singing Wotan around the world are so long, or that in fact, you didn't go that route of the competitions and the young artist programs. Did you do any of that?

Greer Grimsley: Well, that's a very good question, and there are all these voice category jokes about light bulbs, you know, screwing in light bulbs. And the one about bass-baritones or baritones is: how many bass-baritones does it take to screw in a light bulb? Who cares? And so as far as competitions are concerned, for young bass-baritones, there's not the competition-winning repertoire. And I did enter them and was quite frustrated a lot of the times. There were three of us, myself, Kim Josephson, and there was another fellow that we all tied for first place. The only one that I won, or that we all three won, was the Bruce Yarnell Competition. And then I was in the Houston Opera Studio for three years.

Marc A. Scorca: I didn't realize that.

Greer Grimsley: And it is a strange beast.

Marc A. Scorca: But that didn't discourage you?

Greer Grimsley: No, not at all. Because I understood that competitions are completely outside of the realm of what happens on the stage in an opera or anything else that you do. It is this frozen moment of whatever you do. It is part of opera, but it is something else.

Marc A. Scorca: I think that's an incredibly important statement that competitions are not opera on stage. And in fact, we know plenty of singers who have huge competition careers, but it doesn't go on from there; that that's what they were good at. And other singers who didn't necessarily do well in competitions, but have great careers.

Greer Grimsley: Yes.

Marc A. Scorca: Fascinating. So, Texas Opera Theater, but you also did touring with Texas Opera Theater. So, you were part of the Houston Opera Studio. Was this concurrently or sequentially, Texas Opera Theater?

Greer Grimsley: Let's see, I ended up living in Houston for six years. So, I was in the Houston Opera Studio for three years, and it was my sixth year that I sang with the Texas Opera Theater. So, I had two years where I was sort of fending for myself, and there was one year that I had nothing but Hansel and Gretels; I was doing the father in that. You know, you do what you do, and then I would work with a friend of mine when I'd come home and make some money, and then go out and do another Hansel and Gretel.

Marc A. Scorca: And what many won't necessarily know is that in those years, there was the Western Opera Theater out of San Francisco, Texas Opera Theater out of Houston and the New York City Opera National Company. And there were these companies that toured 20-30 cities in a five week, six week period. They went from city to city to city. It was grueling. I worked for the New York City Opera National Company in my first job at City Opera, and Jerry Hadley was the Alfredo in 700 Traviatas that we did that year. And the touring experience, it doesn't exist anymore. None of these companies exist, because touring is so expensive and moving opera isn't easy. But what did the touring experience give you?

Greer Grimsley: Well, number one, I met the love of my life with Texas Opera Theater, and we were both doing our first Carmens, Luretta Bybee, and I hope she's listening. And less importantly, I learned what I could do in the face of not ideal situations. I'm a fairly easygoing person to begin with, but as you know, in those touring situations, you show up at a theater, and it's a different theater, every two or three days, and you have to make all these adjustments and sometimes part of the set doesn't fit, and you have to change the staging and you've spent six hours on the bus to get there. And then you toss your bags in the hotel room, and then go grab something to eat, and then you're at the theater. I guess it toughens you and also, you know what you can do. There's a certain amount of confidence that I believe comes, and hours logged in on the stage, or hours logged in on the stage. And those tours were so very important for us, mining our craft, and we would find things there to use. It was a great way to practice what we do as young singers and, along with you, I wish that we did have those around. I think the pressure for young singers nowadays is so great, because if you don't get into one of these programs - from my point of view - there's not much place for you to apply your craft. And it's very important, I think as we take care of our young singers, that those opportunities are available, not just in opera houses. There is something about touring I think that is special and is a natural part of what we do.

Marc A. Scorca: And I found it created great patriotism in me as you go to these small cities that would never support an opera company of their own. And in the auditorium, whatever they have, you do a performance and, lo and behold, people show up and you do an opera for them that night. It's really quite a wonderful experience.

Greer Grimsley: I mean, shout out to one of my favorite cities like that when I was doing Hansel and Gretel is Bassett, Nebraska, up there near the border of South Dakota. And I can't tell you how welcoming, how warm the community was when we (visited). I still remember this. We had local children in the show, so that was also part of it. And as you said, you can't help but become patriotic; you can't help but love this country and the people in it by doing it. You meet all kinds of people along the way, colleagues, patrons...

Marc A. Scorca: You did Father in Hansel and Gretel, Escamillo. Are there any other roles, touring?

Greer Grimsley: Falke in Fledermaus. That was the second opera on Texas Opera Theater.

Marc A. Scorca: The Escamillo stuck with you as a role, Falke not as much, which gets us to the question of repertoire, and I was curious to know how you found your repertoire that we know you so well for, or how your repertoire found you?

Greer Grimsley: That's a good question, Marc. I would have to say, people saw it before I did, but also it feels that it did find me eventually, and I found it. For me, it felt like a long process.

Marc A. Scorca: Were you in your 20's when someone said to you, "You should sing Wotan?"

Greer Grimsley: No, no, no. I know a lot of singers who ended up singing Wagner that people didn't know what to do with them, and they spent a lot of years being frustrated trying to figure out what should I do? And that's also part of the process of being the artist that we are always becoming, is not trying to, as I say, "Teach to the test", or trying to please. It's what is here (indicates inside oneself), and what's true for you, and that process can be a frustrating process. When I was learning to sing, I learned classic bel canto technique. I loved to sing Verdi, and when I was auditioning, I would sing Verdi and wouldn't get hired for Verdi. It was very frustrating. And then once I started singing the German repertoire, then I'd have intendants come to me, ask me, "Do you sing Verdi?" So, it sort of happens when it happens. And, giving up the idea that I'm gonna teach someone what I can do, and the person listening either hears what I can do, or can't hear what I can do from what I just did. And either I'm not clear enough about it, or they just don't get it. And one of the best bits of advice from an ex-agent of mine, God rest his soul, Joel Bloch, he said, "Don't waste your time on the people who don't get you", and that was important advice. And it's knowing when to move away from a role like Escamillo, which I had a great amount of success with, (and well over 100 performances, maybe closer to 200 performances, and I think same for Luretta), and into something else as I'm growing. And you have your trusted people that you will listen to. But we were on tour with Peter Brook's Carmen and we were in Glasgow. And I tell this story because that's how I sort of got into this repertoire. And some friends of ours were going to sing for Scottish Opera, while we were there. So we called up our agents and said, "I'd like to sing for them". And I did sing for them. I sang my usual stuff. I sang Escamillo, and they came back with an offer for John the Baptist, and that was my first John the Baptist.

Marc A. Scorca: It's funny how dissimilar those are, in a way.

Greer Grimsley: Exactly, and so you never know. And in a sense, it did find me, but I was also a victim of a certain amount of American conservatism about when you should start looking at things. And so I thought, "Oh, no, no, no, I really shouldn't do this". And it was Luretta saying, "What else have you got? You may as well take it". And that's where I mark the moment where I went. "Okay. That's where I started to move into the German repertoire".

Marc A. Scorca: Isn't that interesting?

Greer Grimsley: And because I was being pushed in all these directions: lyric baritone, regular baritone, sometimes some Italian stuff, French stuff. And then I started working on the Salome, and I found what I felt when I was first singing, and it was that I still had this connection to the lower part of my voice and the upper part of my voice, and I could use that. I could use 'em all, and it was a fantastic acting part, and I just went, "Okay. I think I'm on a road now that will be fruitful".

Marc A. Scorca: How wonderful. And who was the casting director or the general director who offered you the John the Baptist, do you remember?

Greer Grimsley: Well, it was actually a conductor, John Mauceri.

Marc A. Scorca: And he heard it, and he was right. Now, you've become identified with a number of roles - Dutchman and Wotan. And to be identified with roles means that you've done them a lot. You've done them season after season after season. And when you have signature roles and you've done them a lot, how do you keep them fresh?

Greer Grimsley: Ah. As simple as it sounds, when I'm brushing it up before I go do it, (if I've not done it right before), I look through the music, and as trite as it sounds, there are so many things that these characters say for the first time out loud. And it's trying to remember what that was like, saying something for the first time. Just saying it out loud for the first time, and always looking for something new in it. I remember reading before I did my first Scarpia in Tosca, I read Tito Gobbi's book, and he said that in all of his performances of Tosca, he always found something new. And that was something that really resonated with me. And no matter what I'm doing, I am always looking for something new, something that I can pull out, something that's maybe more relevant to me now than it was before, but I always look for something. I don't think I ever have just kind of said, "Okay, this is (emphasis) my name whatever role, and this is what I do. And because different productions are so different. I try to understand where the conductor's coming from with his interpretation, and what the director is doing, and try to meld that with how I feel about the role. And so keeping it fresh is always, not just with saying text, but also musical things. Is there something that I haven't (noticed?) Thinking about why did the composer write these many measures of rest between my answer to a question. It's constantly asking questions of myself.

Marc A. Scorca: Does it happen frequently that the new insight into the role is given to you by a conductor, or a colleague, or a stage director? Or does it come from within you?

Greer Grimsley: I think a combination of all of those, and it's being open to those. It's important as we grow as artists to remain supple, and I love that word, because it can describe singing, and it can also describe your thinking. And you can't be so rigid, because, as we talked about with touring as well, anywhere you go, it's about being able to adapt. And to harken back to my interest in history and archeology and anthropology is that that's how our species survived. It's adapting. It's being able to adapt to all these different situations and why shouldn't we, because you never know when that spark will happen. When that question will happen that you went "Oh, okay, I see".

Marc A. Scorca: Or if the Brünnhilde sees it a way you've never thought of, that may get you to think it differently?

Greer Grimsley: Exactly.

Marc A. Scorca: You're doing Wotan right now. How long was it between your last Ring Cycle and this one?

Greer Grimsley: Let's see. Oh gosh, now I'm trying to remember, because I've done Ring operas along the way.

Marc A. Scorca: As in Die Walküre in Bayreuth last summer.

Greer Grimsley: Yes.

Marc A. Scorca: There.

Greer Grimsley: Yeah, oh, baby. That was quite fun. It's been like a year and a half, two years.

Marc A. Scorca: So with a year and a half or two years between Ring Cycles...of course you know it, but do you really sit down at the piano and relearn it, if you will, after a year and a half pause? What's that like to refresh a Ring Cycle?

Greer Grimsley: Well, you start one opera at a time. It's like meeting an old friend. It's something very familiar, and I welcome it every time. And especially at this part of my career too, is that, as a young singer, even if you had done roles before, at least for me, I would always go into the anxiety of remembering the first time I did it, and feel that anxiety. It's more of a welcoming process, and I'm always surprised how much of it stays remembered, especially the nuances throughout.

Marc A. Scorca: So, let's say you are working with a stage director and given the repertoire, there are stage directors who will interpret it radically differently from the last production or the production before then. What happens when you encounter a situation and you just don't see the work that way? Do you just take a deep breath and, as we all do in a job, think, "Okay, it is a job", or do you try to make it work for you? How do you deal with the productions that don't quite see it the same way that you do?

Greer Grimsley: I will try something and try to make it work, and if I can't make it work, then I bring it back to the director. And more often than not, they've been willing to discuss it, to change some things. But there have been a few of 'em where you have to take a deep breath, and you try to infuse it with as much truth and beauty of the story that you can within those confines. I think being honest on stage, there's not an audience member in the world that can't tell when someone's not connected and true. I mean, you know immediately when somebody's just kind of going through it and they hate the production. If you don't like the production, and you want people to see how much the production really is bad, then you invest in as much of the mania that the director wants you to invest in. But I think it's also a good exercise - not just an exercise - but it keeps you fresh. And for me, I'm always trying to think, "Okay, this is kind of crazy, but how can I justify this? How can I make this work?" And it keeps - important word - it keeps you supple. And you cannot become rigid. I mean, I worked with a colleague, we were doing a crazy production, and the whole time she would just roll her eyes to the audience, and you just go, (waves hand), "We're doing something here".

Marc A. Scorca: Not in the rehearsal hall, but to the audience?

Greer Grimsley: No, in the performance. She was like, "Isn't this terrible?" (gestures 'not my fault')

Marc A. Scorca: That's not gonna work.

Greer Grimsley: I want people to come and make a judgment on their own. Perhaps I can't see, because as singers, we're playing our instruments from the inside. You can't put your hands on it. And also, as an actor, you're playing your instrument from the inside. You know how your body moves, but motivating that? And so, you can't see what that looks like. And granted, if it's a crazy production, you can't say to the person who's put that together, "What does that look like?" There's a trust value. And that's a big part of performance too is the trust, of your colleagues, of the team putting it together. And I think that's part of surviving a career is being able to weave through these challenges. And yeah, sometimes it's not so gratifying, but lots of times it is, and more often than not. I would say 95% of the time, even more than that, it's just wonderfully gratifying.

Marc A. Scorca: Vocal role model?

Greer Grimsley: Oh my gosh. Well, once I discovered him, George London, not to imitate, but just to hear and adore how he interpreted music. I would say Robert Merrill, Cornell MacNeil, Norman Treigle, another New Orleans boy. All of those guys I admire and they sang healthily for a long time. My gosh, Cornell MacNeil had a huge span of his career, as did Merrill.

Marc A. Scorca: So, why do Wotans like singing Sweeney Todd?

Greer Grimsley: You know, I never thought about that, until you asked that. I'll tell you my reason, and maybe we can match it up with some of the other guys, like Bryn (Terfel). And I think singers will say this too. I wanted to be a music theater guy, but I'm more suited for opera, in the long run, but it's still a passion of mine. I adore Sondheim, but the challenge of it, because it is very operatic in many respects. My main point is, that it's nice not to have to be confined to a time signature when you're doing your dialogue. And anything that you're able to do dialogue I love doing, because you're exploring the music of the language as opposed to music imposed on the language. And, as an actor, it's nice to have that every once in a while too.

Marc A. Scorca: I love the concept you just spun out; that's really fabulous. Pirates of Penzance. So you do like doing comedy?

Greer Grimsley: Yes.

Marc A. Scorca: Because when I read the rep list, these are pretty dark characters. Are there other comic roles that you've done that you particularly enjoy, or comic roles you want to do?

Greer Grimsley: Oh my gosh. So far, those are pretty good. Early on in my career, I did The Red Shadow in The Desert Song, and I thought that was fun, because you play a dual role of being a fool and then the hero, and that was quite fun. But so far the ones that I've done have been really satisfying.

Marc A. Scorca: Or The Grinch?

Greer Grimsley: You've heard that?

Marc A. Scorca: Yeah, I did this afternoon.

Greer Grimsley: I did that as a dare from a friend. And she said, "Oh, I think you would sing that so well". And so, I put that together in an afternoon, just right at my piano. And I think when I first tossed it out there on Facebook, I challenged people. It was around Christmas time, so I wanted it to be a challenge for people to donate to Toys For Tots, and I challenged people to do that.

Marc A. Scorca: That's really wonderful. I really enjoyed it this afternoon. So, I want to lean into the conversation about you and family, because of course, your wife, Luretta, is a singer, and so frequently dual-singer-relationships don't work over time. Either ego gets in the way, or just logistics, triumph over love. And you two, for nice long time now, have made it work. How did you make it work with two working singers with careers, with egos and frailty? How did you make it work?

Greer Grimsley: I think ultimately that our relationship, our love for each other is the thing that is the most important, and it's been tough and as you said, we're pulled apart in different directions. There are stresses along the way. I think the one thing that that really gets you through, and I hate to sound trite about it, but it is our love for each other, and realizing that's the most important. And being able to see past the problem, past the logistics, and realizing that it's a gift. And to find someone who loves you and that you love to go through this crazy life. Some people never find that.

Marc A. Scorca: Someone who really understands what the other one is going through.

Greer Grimsley: Yeah. And that's the thing too, is that there never was the having to explain the frustrations of a rehearsal. Not that that is any great thing, but there is a huge empathy for each other about that. And there is something about having done tours together. I mean, we toured together from Texas Opera Theater, and then pretty much right after Texas Opera Theater, we were both hired. They didn't know that we were boyfriend and girlfriend at the time, and Peter Brook hired us to do his Carmen, and then we were on tour with that for many years, and that showed us that we could sort of exist together and love each other through it all. The wonderful part is despite all of the bounces and the bumps and the bruises that we've had through the time that we've been together (30 plus years), I've always known that she was on my side and I was on her side, no matter what. And that's something special, and seeing how special that is.

Marc A. Scorca: And she is such a special person. And then, you went and had a child.

Greer Grimsley: Yes.

Marc A. Scorca: So, all this lovey-dovey stuff is fine, but then you had a child, and how with the travel and the logistics, it's logistics times two. How did you make the child-rearing work?

Greer Grimsley: Well, when we were agonizing about if we should try for a baby, and then once we found out we were pregnant and started to stress about 'what are we gonna do', exactly that question, I sort of harken back to our species as survivalists. And I said, "From the time we, as a species, left Africa, we've been nomadic; it's in us to be nomadic. And even the Native Americans here, up until most recently were nomads, pretty much. And everything just sort of came with, and I said, "Let's try to look at it that way". And she bought it. Luretta was always the person who thought about logistics, and if it weren't for her parents too, helping us out in so many places, they were fabulous. That was a big thing as well, and having the help of family along the way when Emma was very small. There were times that I would have Emma, but more often than not, Luretta had Emma, and whether or not you like it as a female artist, you do take a hit in perception in this business once you've had a child. I don't understand it, but you definitely see that happen. And so, you know, she was busier than me. And that took a hit as well.

Marc A. Scorca: So, when I see Emma, I should not bother asking her who brought her to her first opera, because it's undoubtedly her parents.

Greer Grimsley: Yeah. We're responsible.

Marc A. Scorca: And then there is the family Sweeney Todd, and I'd love you to tell us about that experience.

Greer Grimsley: I think I had more fun than I should have had. I love the fact I got very teary and emotional that the three of us were sharing the stage.

Marc A. Scorca: What were the roles?

Greer Grimsley: I was singing Sweeney and Luretta was singing Mrs. Lovett, and Emma played my child, my daughter, and I came close to slicing her throat at the end, and that was an amazing thing. I hope we get to do that again. And that's the thing about performing with Luretta, I know her so well; she knows me so well. There's so much trust there that we can explore those characters much further than it would be with any other colleague. And having Emma, my interaction with her was just very brief at the end, but she trusted me; I trusted her, and I was very proud of us, I have to say. Just very plainly, I was very proud of us.

Marc A. Scorca: Were they able to be with you in Bayreuth last summer when you made your Bayreuth debut?

Greer Grimsley: Luretta was with me, but Emma was on tour.

Marc A. Scorca: And what was it like, after a career of substance to bring Wagner roles to Bayreuth?

Greer Grimsley: Wow. Yes. It was not a small thing. I thought at this point that that would be the one milestone that I would not do. I came close. They came to see me in Berlin when I was singing Flying Dutchman, and asked me to audition for their production of Flying Dutchman. At the time, I was hugely excited, asked my agent to set it up. They set it up, and then it got canceled and reset, and then we never heard. And then I asked, "Well, what's going on?" Well, it just so happened that this fabulous, wonderful singer who was a staple over there, John Tomlinson, decided that he'd like to try the Dutchman, and I never got to do it when I auditioned. But you know what, things happen the way they happen, because I think I savored that moment of making my debut there so much more last summer. And on top of it, I was honored to sing not one Wagner opera, but two Wagner operas for my debut in Bayreuth. It was not a small thing. And when we talk about it, I still sort of glow a little bit, 'cause I think of the kid that grew up in a very poor neighborhood in New Orleans, and ending up singing at the pinnacle of Wagner's operas.

Marc A. Scorca: We were talking back in the green room, on the one hand how hot it is in Bayreuth, and how hot it is to be under the spotlights, and in costume and in multiple wigs. And then we both looked at one another and at the same time said, "But the acoustics", and it somehow makes it all worthwhile. You were saying about the first moment you heard the orchestra in your Walküre, and what it was like.

Greer Grimsley: Oh, yes. Well, the two things I sang there were Flying Dutchman and Valkyrie, but my first stage rehearsal with orchestra was Valkyrie, but my official debut was Dutchman. But we were going through it, and it came time for my first line, and I sang my first bit and I was late for my second line because I was standing there with my mouth agape and just marveling at the acoustic. It was just amazing. I wasn't prepared for the beauty of the sound that rang in the sweetness of the acoustic.

Marc A. Scorca: Well, composer, librettist and architect - not bad. Now, we got on the subject of children, and of course you've done a couple of residencies at New England Conservatory. What is it like working with youngsters who are perhaps starry-eyed? What do you try to impart? Are you doing technique? Are you doing interpretation? Are you doing career-reality checking? What do you do with the young people?

Greer Grimsley: Probably a little bit of all of that, but I like to, especially when it's young singers, talk about technique, because I think if you get ahead of the horse, because technique is the foundation, and you have to be so solid with your technique, then you can talk about interpretation. You have to be able to just sing it. Just sing the doggone thing. Then through knowing, and when I say technique, when you learn a technique, you're also learning how your voice works. And you learn all of the different colors it can make, and trying to make colors without having the technical basis under it, is a fool's errand, I believe. And I think many times students, and it happened to me, that you are forced to make these colors, or these interpretations that are not true to you. And the one thing I try to emphasize (aside from technique) is to find what they want to say with it. "Tell me what you want to say with this piece, you as the artist", because I think the younger that we empower the singers to make those choices, to think about those, instead of waiting for somebody to tell them what the interpretation (is), or what color they should use. It's exciting to see that light go on, to challenge 'em, to do as we were talking before, about keeping roles fresh, is to ask them questions: "What's happening here? Why are you singing this? Is this the first time that your character is singing this, saying this out loud?" Asking those questions. What's going on in the life? Even in a grander scale, what's going on in the world when this opera was composed? What was influencing that composer? Verdi or Beethoven or Mozart, even Wagner. What was happening that caused these people to want to change people's hearts with their music - those questions, because these guys are adults. They're young, but they're adults and they're able to work through these questions. But, before you get to interpretation, you have to be sound in your technique.

Marc A. Scorca: We were talking back in the green room too, about the importance of source material, and how when you want to refresh a role, you go back and read some other source material or historical work, just so that way you recontextualize and perhaps find yet a new motivation for a phrase that you hadn't thought of before. Although you are just at the peak of your career, do you see teaching in masterclasses in your future? Is this something you'd like to do?

Greer Grimsley: Oh, most definitely. Our profession, and not everybody wants to do it, but I believe it's important that oral traditions are passed down, and that's something that I think that we're losing in the art form. I've been actually very generous along the way, wherever I've been, and I don't mind, because that's part of this, it's part of opera. I mean, from the beginning, people have passed on. "Well, this is what (Beniamino) Gigli did here". I think it's an important part to pass knowledge on. That's what makes us human; part of our social DNA is passing on our knowledge.

Marc A. Scorca: Absolutely. And the fact that we, as a species, can speak, enables us to do that and pass along the wisdom of how to survive in the forest, or how to sing a great Wotan. Well, you are singing the Ring Cycle through May at The Met. What's your summer?

Greer Grimsley: Bayreuth; back at Bayreuth.

Marc A. Scorca: And this season doing the Tristan?

Greer Grimsley: Kurwenal in Tristan.

Marc A. Scorca: How fantastic. Well, ladies and gentlemen, you get to see through this conversation why Greer's Wotan is so multidimensional and deeply human, 'cause that's who you are.

Greer Grimsley: Is Stephen Wadsworth here? That man right there was so gracious and long-suffering when I was doing my first one.

Marc A. Scorca: In Seattle?

Greer Grimsley: Yes. Stephen Wadsworth was our director, and I have to say, you know, in a public forum, Stephen, thank you so much. I owe you so much. He asked the right questions, and the work that we did in Seattle that first summer, when I tackled this role has carried me through crazy productions that we've talked about, with sopranos rolling their eyes...

Marc A. Scorca: I saw the second Ring Cycle in Seattle, and it was just fantastic, and I can imagine how that is your foundation of understanding the work, because it just told the story so beautifully.

Greer Grimsley: Likewise to come back full circle about technique as well. That's not possible if I'm worrying about how I'm gonna sing it, or if I'm not settled in it. And also, if I didn't have that fabulous and wonderfully sound foundation of Stephen in that summer, I don't believe that I would've found the things along the way that I have found in the role.

Marc A. Scorca: Good luck with the rest of the Ring Cycle. Please join me in thanking Greer Grimsley.