This interview was originally recorded on May 24th, 2021.
The Oral History Project is supported by the Arthur F. and Alice E. Adams Charitable Foundation.

John Holiday, countertenor

Countertenor John Holiday has established himself as “one of the finest countertenors of his generation” (Los Angeles Times). His voice has been praised as “a thing of astonishing beauty” (New Yorker), “arrestingly powerful, secure, and dramatically high” (Wall Street Journal), and “timeless” (Washington Post). Holiday’s unique voice and powerful story have been the subject of profiles in The New Yorker, CNN’s Great Big Story, Los Angeles Times, and more. Highlights of Holiday’s 2024–2025 season included a debut in the role of Farnace in Mitridate, re di Ponto at Boston Lyric Opera in a production by James Darrah; a debut in the title role of Akhnaten in a new Barrie Kosky production at Komische Oper Berlin; and returns to the Bayerische Staatsoper for Le Grand Macabre and Dido and Aeneas. He also toured with The English Concert and Harry Bicket, singing Tolomeo in Giulio Cesare at venues including Carnegie Hall, the Barbican, and more.

Transcript

Marc A. Scorca: Good evening, friends. Please join me in welcoming John Holiday. Hello, how are you?

John Holiday: I am doing so well. Thank you, Marc, so much for the invitation to speak with you all today. I'm really looking forward.

Marc A. Scorca: Well, it is our pleasure, I know, and I'm not gonna spare you, because my first question to everyone I interview is: who brought you to your first opera?

John Holiday: Who brought me to my first opera? Actually, I took myself, and I was a freshman at Southern Methodist University, and when I was in school, SMU, the Middle School of the Arts, they gave students - I'm sure they had some kind of partnership with Dallas Opera and Fort Worth Opera - we were able to present our ID to get a free ticket. So I saw Rigoletto at Fort Worth Opera, and that was my very first opera that I ever saw. But I drove myself.

Marc A. Scorca: And did you like it?

John Holiday: I loved it. I loved it so much. I remember being totally mesmerized with Indira Mahajan, who sang the role of Gilda. In fact, I don't remember (this is really sad) any of the other cast, beside her. I just thought she was incredible, and, in fact, that was the conversation that kind of led to me discussing with my teacher Barbara Hill Moore, about being a countertenor, 'cause I came back to school and I just couldn't stop singing 'Caro nome', of course, with all of the wrong text. But that was how that conversation started, actually.

Marc A. Scorca: As long as the notes are right... But going back earlier in your musical background, I understand that your mother was a musician, and I'm wondering what her influence on your life as a musician was? Did she encourage you, from early on, to just find music as a form of expression for yourself?

John Holiday: My mother was a musician. She played the clarinet actually in high school, and my grandmother was a musician. In fact, my dad, I think, was a musician too, in the band. But my grandmother, also a singer and pianist. From the very beginning, as far as I can remember, my entire family has been so supportive of my musical endeavors in every single way. I'm lucky to have had that, because I have several friends who have not had that be their history with their families. But my family from the very beginning was super supportive. And in fact, I don't know what they would've thought I would do, if I weren't doing music, (other than I'm also teaching too). But yeah, they were very supportive, and my mother, especially early on. The only thing that used to drive her crazy - it was when I was in high school. I would compete in the TMEA All-State - that's the Texas Music Educators Association All-State Choir - and I would listen to my music really late at night, because I'm a night owl, and I would sing my music really late at night, so I'd get in trouble for that. But other than that, very supportive; very supportive.

Marc A. Scorca: What kind of music was playing in the house, and did you grow up with a whole mix of music?

John Holiday: I grew up with a mix of music, except for opera. We did not hear opera, or anything really classical, in my home growing up, ever. In fact, the very first time I ever heard anything classical in nature was probably in school, but also, really in my memory, classical music is etched from my experience in the Fort Bend Boys Choir of Texas, which I joined, I think in the second or third grade, around that time. But in my house, we listened to a lot of gospel music, a lot of R&B, jazz and pop music of the day. My oldest sister, Jivanne and I always laugh now. We would say you would know it was Saturday, when my mom would turn on The Clark Sisters, a very, very famous gospel group, and my mother would turn on the albums, and she'd put the little album on, and just start blasting it. And you knew that it was Saturday, and it was time to get up and clean up the house and do your chores and all those things. But we listened to a lot, which I'm really thankful for, because that has really helped to influence my artistry.

Marc A. Scorca: Sure. Now, I read in your bio and some articles and interviews with you, that music teachers in school also played a really important role in encouraging you as a musician.

John Holiday: Yes, yes. Golly, were they important to me. I can still remember all of my music teachers. One that was most influential in my life was Brenda Brothers. She was my teacher in the fourth grade, and she was my first African American teacher that I ever had, actually, and she taught choir. And then I had my teacher in high school who was very, very influential to me as well, really pushing me to be my very best. And in fact, her son, Brad and I were in high school together, and she taught the choir, and then when he graduated, I thought she was leaving (and we all did), and she came back and she finished one more year just because I was there. But she took me to my college audition at SMU in Dallas. She drove me to my audition, spent the night in her own room (I had my own room), and drove me back home from my audition. Sorry, I get emotional thinking about it. All of my music teachers have been so influential to me, even my band directors. I just have had such an amazing trajectory and experience with my music teachers, even my voice teachers. My voice teachers are like my mothers, and they get mad when I say that, 'cause they don't wanna be my mom; they wanna be my friend. But they are. I could never call them by their first name. I still call them 'Prof', and Professor (Karen) Lykes. And Marlena (Malas) likes to be called Marlena, so I call Marlena Marlena. But I have a very strong love, a deep love for teachers, especially coming from a family of teachers.

Marc A. Scorca: Sure. Now, you say your band leader was important. What band instrument did you play?

John Holiday: I first started playing in sixth grade. I played the alto saxophone, then I evolved, and I played the tenor saxophone in eighth grade in high school. And I was also the first African American drum major of my school for two years. So that was a lot of fun for me.

Marc A. Scorca: And drum majors, just at the front of the marching band.

John Holiday: I started early, I tell you; I like being in the front and center

Marc A. Scorca: Did you have feathers in your hat?

John Holiday: Actually, we did. Marching band in Texas is a huge...marching band and choir. They're huge; it's a tradition. It's just like it's huge. So we had our own salutes, our own feathers. We had our own capes. All my costume designer friends, who designed for me for operas: this is where my obsession with capes started - from high school. We used to have capes that you could swing it around and you'd do a salute, and then you'd be ready to go.

Marc A. Scorca: Oh, how fabulous. That's really great. Now, your journey as a countertenor. There are so many wonderful stories of singers who were just not doing very well as tenors, not doing very well as baritones, but then this light bulb went off, and suddenly the real voice appeared, and it was the countertenor voice where the sound really was beautiful and where the musicianship could flower. You just mentioned coming back from seeing Rigoletto and wanting to sing 'Caro nome'. But what was the vocal journey for you to discover that you were a countertenor?

John Holiday: Well often, whenever I'm asked this question, I always preface it by saying that, in fact, I always sang as a soprano - very, very high soprano, even in high school. And then I switched, I think it was my sophomore year, I switched to be a tenor 1. But even a tenor 1 for TMEA All-State had rather high notes that needed to be sung. And my teacher had the foresight to say, "I don't think anybody can sing those notes quite like you". And so she was right, and I would win first chair at all the competitions. But I went to college as a tenor. I sang all the repertoire well, it just wasn't super comfortable for me. And I thought, "Okay, well, let's see..." And then my teacher was like, "Well, let's try some different rep". So, we tried different repertoire, baritenor things. And that was okay; it was just kind of not fun for me. And then after I went to see this opera, I came back and I was talking to Prof, and I said, "I can sing really, really high". And any teacher when they first hear you would say the exact same thing that she said, she was like, "No, you can't". And I was like, "Yes. I promise you; I really can sing high". And then in her nature, she said, "Okay, well then just show me. What is it that you wanna do?" And so I started singing 'Caro nome', and she goes, "Oh, well, this voice type is called a countertenor", and she said, "That's what you are. But if you're going to do this, you're not gonna switch back and forth. You're going to stay as a countertenor and sing in this repertoire, because what it will do, is it'll help to strengthen your muscle memory, your technical aspect of singing. And you won't have to go back and forth, because that's the kind of thing that can mess some people up". But really, I was always singing as a soprano, even in church choirs, always soprano. So I always say, I dabbled as a tenor, and I've always been a countertenor.

Marc A. Scorca: Did the same voice teacher at school help nurture the countertenor voice?

John Holiday: Oh my goodness, yes. Prof was everything that I needed. In fact, I just saw her two days ago. But she really gave me so much in terms of my technical understanding of what the voice is, and what it does, and what it should do, and how to do it healthily. I got such a strong foundation. And still to this day, if something is not going right, she will tell me, whether I ask or not, but I ask. But even if I don't solicit, she will tell me. And that's what her job is, as my teacher, and as my confidant, my mentor. And I have to say a lot of what I do, I learned from her and her teaching. So, I really am appreciative of that. And even my students today, from having learned that...I always tell my students, a stable foundation equals a stable house. You can build any kind of house you want upon a stable foundation, but it must be stable.

Marc A. Scorca: So, the training for you as a countertenor was not any different from as if you were training to be the tenor, in building the foundation?

John Holiday: No, I don't think so. And that's a lot of what I talk about whenever I would be doing interviews to teach, or just interviews in general. I don't think that singing is any different for any voice type. There are different things, I guess, in terms of the higher you sing, certain things happen. But in terms of you having the vocal mechanism, it's all the same, in general. Well, first of all, you gotta have good posture, good breath, good sound. I don't see it being any different. I can honestly say I've never learned from a male teacher. I never have had a male teacher; I never even studied with a countertenor. I've studied with two mezzos and a soprano. And so, I just feel like they couldn't have taught me if it were any different than anything that they were doing. I just think good singing is good singing, and like I said, the mechanism is the same. The whole entire musculature is the exact same. So, yeah, that's how I feel about that.

Marc A. Scorca: Now, you place really well in a number of important competitions: getting some Tucker Foundation support, the Marian Anderson Award in 2017, Gerda Lissner. Your career has been a wonderful career, but certainly some years ago, and not that many, some of these prizes must have confirmed for you that you were on the right track. Aside from helping you pay the bills, what do these competitions do for a young singer?

John Holiday: As you just said, I think one of the most important things that the competitions do for young singers, is that it affirms the talent. It affirms the journey. And in my estimation, I think that everyone wants to be seen, heard, affirmed, and loved. And I think in some small or large way, when a singer wins these competitions, it lets them know that they're on the right track and to keep working, to keep going the distance, to never stop. And that's what the competitions did for me when I was younger. I'm still young, but when I was younger, and I really necessarily didn't like competitions, but what I understood about them is that it also helped to put me in touch with other professionals in the industry. And it also helped to get me noticed, and to have a network of people who understood what I wanted to do, what I endeavored to do in the world. And each time that I got onto the stage to do a competition, it just kept steadily getting better and better and better. There were a few no's along the way, but all the no's that I did get, or that I have had, have been fuel for me to just keep going. And if somebody said no, I was like, "Well, somebody's gonna say yes, and it's gonna be the exact yes that I need". One of the things that didn't always work for me in competitions is that I was never a singer that would stay around to listen to a lot of the other singers. Not because I didn't like them, or because I did like them. I was always trying to compete with myself. I wanted to be better than I was the last time. So, I would just go to the competition to see if I could do better, not to see who else was out there singing, or anything like that, although I met some really incredible people. But for me, it was just like, "How can I be better than I was before? What does that feel like for me?" And I tell my students that today, your competition is yourself. Because I firmly believe that just because you are great, doesn't mean that someone else can't be great as well. So yeah, competitions were fun for me and a way to get to know people and a way to know that I was doing the right thing.

Marc A. Scorca: Because young artists programs are not easily open to countertenors. It's hard to sing in the chorus or, maybe you could have covered Gilda, but not many countertenors could cover Gilda. So, there aren't as many climbing-the-ladder opportunities for countertenors or opportunities to be noticed, as there are for more standard voices.

John Holiday: That's accurate. And I 100% agree with that. It's one of the reasons why I didn't do a lot of young artist programs. But I did one, and it was the best one for me, and I think the best one in the world, because I'm an alum. But I was a Santa Fe Opera apprentice in 2011, and Marc, it absolutely changed my life. I can still, like it was yesterday, remember the audition that I did for Dave (David) Holloway and for Robert (Bob) Tweten, and being in there, and singing, and being called back, and driving, 'cause I think then I was living in Cincinnati. And, I would go to Indiana where I did the first audition, and the last one, I think was in Chicago or something like that. That audition changed the trajectory of my life, because I got accepted into that program, and I covered the role of Corrado in Vivaldi's Griselda, and I was covering Yuriy Mynenko, who I think that year had won third place in the BBC Cardiff Singer of the World. And then I met Jamie Barton, who I had known before, but I really got to spend great time with her, and she's become a dear friend of mine. I met David Daniels and worked with him, Heidi Stober, Ana María Martínez, David Lomelí, Stephen Costello, Ailyn Pérez, and these are all my friends now. They really are. I could go on and on. Will Liverman and I were apprentices together that year. He's a dear, dear, dear friend. But anyway, this program changed my life, because, in its way, it affirmed what I was doing, and I was able to be seen. And it was through that exposure of Santa Fe - I got to work with Reri Grist, Diane Richardson...I remember being invited to go eat at Reri Grist's house in Santa Fe; it was amazing. But anyway, after having sung there, doing the audition - it's a huge audition that they do at the very end; not even really an audition, but you sang for everybody. There are lots of agents or managers that come out and opera directors and opera houses come out and hear the singers, and through that, I got management with CAMI (Columbia Artists Management Inc). So, I hadn't even finished school yet, and I had management with CAMI with Damon Bristo from Columbia Artists. And that was a long-lasting relationship, about 10 years, and now I'm with Alex Fletcher. But it was fantastic.

Marc A. Scorca: It's just great to hear, because certainly a lot of young rising singers listen to these interviews, and your insight about competitions and about young artists programs, it's really important. I'm glad you've gone into that detail.

John Holiday: One of the reasons why I say that about competitions - about why I didn't stay, and it's not necessarily what a lot of singers do - but I find sometimes other singers will go out into the audience to listen to other singers, just to bash them, or do things like that, and I've never found joy in that. So, I never wanted to be around that energy. I try to be very, very positive and uplifting in everything that I do. So, I would know immediately it's time. Okay, you go and sing and you leave, because I don't feel diminishing anybody else's light makes your light shine any brighter.

Marc A. Scorca: No, it does not help. I wanted to move on to your enormous repertoire, and first just on the opera stage, running the gamut from Baroque, and of course, your good friend, George Frideric Handel to creating new work, Matt (Matthew) Aucoin and Sarah Ruhl's Eurydice, which, of course was at Los Angeles Opera and was to have been at The Metropolitan Opera, and we're just fingers crossed on that. So, creating a new role that doesn't have a performance history versus creating a role that has centuries of performance practice: what's the difference and how do they inform one another?

John Holiday: I think that when there's something that one is doing, which has been created many, many, many moons ago, and it's been done so many times, there are certainly ideas that directors have when they come into the room about these roles, like Julius Caesar, or Tolomeo, or Radamisto, or Xerxes, or Sesto - any of those roles. And it's a lot of fun, because they've seen so many iterations of the operas, and they have their ideas about what they want. And I feel like when there's something that's brand new, there's much more of a collaborative effort between the director and the artist portraying the role, and I get to make it mine. I get to put my stamp on it, and then, when and if someone listens to the role that I have done, they get to hear what it was like for me to create that role. It'll never be done the way that it was done when I did it, because I literally am the one creating these roles, and putting my stamp on it and saying, "This is a collaborative effort between the director, the composer, the librettist". Oftentimes that's the thing that's really cool for me now, in this stage of my career, (which is really strange I'm saying what I'm saying) that they'll be directors and librettists and composers that reach out to me and ask me what do I want to do? And I'm just like, "Whoa, that's incredible". But certainly even when I'm doing something that's an older opera - Baroque - of course, I love Handel so much, but even Mozart, things like that, I do get asked what my ideas are, but it's more collaborative I feel like when something's brand new, because I get to say, "My voice sits up here; let's put the music up here", or, "This is what I'm thinking about the role". I always let the director lead because that's the director's job, but I always am really excited when there's a director - and I've been really lucky that every director I've worked with has been like this - where they asked me for my insight and my desire for the character, because the truth is, I am not the character. The character allows me for the evening or for however long I'm doing the run, to put on the pants and the outfit that they choose to wear, and I get to become that, and tell their story. So, I'm really lucky in that respect.

Marc A. Scorca: Now, let's talk about the difference between doing say, a Handel opera, which will probably be based on mythology, in some fashion, or remote history. But you also were in We Shall Not Be Moved, a work with profound resonance with a world we live in today. For you as an artist, what's the difference between doing a work that is very beautiful and mythological versus doing a work that really is commentary, is a statement about the world we live in? What's the difference for you, as an artist, in that?

John Holiday: This is a great question, and I don't get asked it often, but the difference between a Julius Caesar and a John Blue, which is the role I played in We Shall Not Be Moved. We Shall Not Be Moved is my most favorite opera that I've ever done in my life, because I live that life. Not by any means have I ever been homeless and had to find another group of people, but I live in a world today that sees all of these experiences that this family of brothers with their sister, Un/Sung experience. I know what it's like to be a young, gay, Black man in America, and to grow up feeling like I don't belong. I know very well what that feels like. I happen to portray a female to male trans character in We Shall Not Be Moved. I do not know what the trans experience is like, because I'm a cisgendered male. But I do know what the experience of being a LGBTQIA teen is like, and how uncomfortable it can be in your own skin, when you just want to survive, and you want to live, and you want to love. As I said earlier, you wanna be seen, heard, loved and affirmed. So I know that experience; I have lived it myself, as opposed to playing a Julius Caesar, or a Tolomeo, or a Radamisto, or a Xerxes. I have never been a king, although I think I am a king, you know.

Marc A. Scorca: And never say never; never say never.

John Holiday: Maybe one day. But that's the difference between these mythological characters and these characters who are people that I know. I know a John Blue. I know an Un/Sung. I know these people. I have taught junior high school and high school. So, I know what it is like when you see a teenager coming in, struggling to find him or herself, and struggling to find acceptance in a world that is telling you 'no', or a world that is saying that you aren't good enough and you don't belong here. And then trying to reconcile that. So, that is why I love roles like John Blue and I feel lucky to have portrayed it. I'm going to be doing more opera, fingers crossed, in the coming seasons, and of course, there'll be mythological characters, but also more characters that are real-life, everyday people that you and I know, or that you and I read about in the paper, that you and I see on the television. And one thing that I was really proud of about We Shall Not Be Moved, is that it told a story that we needed to hear. A story that I was unaware of, of the MOVE bombings that happened in 1985 in Philadelphia, but it also talked about the school systems. It talked about gun violence against brown and black bodies, against queer bodies. It was so relevant and poignant that it resonated even in Amsterdam, when we took it to the Netherlands. So, I really hope if anybody's listening to me today, that someone out there - we need to do that opera again. That's one of my favorite ones.

Marc A. Scorca: Thank you so much for sharing that, and I can imagine how when the work is about you, or a part of you, or a part of the people you know, it's just very different from portraying a king or a mythological figure, as magnificent as that music is, of course.

John Holiday: Oh, it's totally magnificent. And I was raised by my mother and my grandmother to think of myself as a king, so it's great to play those roles.

Marc A. Scorca: Now I wanna continue exploring the repertoire question here, and you taking on the challenges of performing a pants role traditionally sung by a mezzo-soprano, like Cherubino. And how easy or hard was it, because there, once again, you were going right against the performing history of the work. But it is supposed to be a boy, and it is wonderfully in your vocal range to do. What's it like taking on a traditional pants role and sort of breaking the mold on that?

John Holiday: It is challenging. In fact, I didn't get to do the role, because it was during the Covid pandemic, but I did learn it. And one of the most beautiful things about Cherubino, I think as a mezzo, is that you really get to play on the innocence of Cherubino's character that exists. But I think, even as a countertenor, that can exist. We all know what it's like to be a young, mischievous teenager and want all the things that you're not supposed to have, and do all the things that you're not supposed to do. But I found the role really satisfying to learn. It was quite difficult, I will not lie, but I really enjoyed every aspect of it. And in fact, it would have been my very first Mozart that I have done. My hope is one day, I'd love to do Sesto in La Clemenza di Tito.

Marc A. Scorca: I was gonna say, if you open the door on that, there are some wonderful roles.

John Holiday: Oh, I've always wanted to do Sesto. And then to do La Finta Giardiniera. I love that opera.

Marc A. Scorca: John, what made Cherubino difficult?

John Holiday: Some of the singing that Cherubino does lies right in the passaggio. So, you have to really know how to navigate that. And passaggio singing is very difficult, especially if it stays right in the passaggio, which some of his singing does. Other than that, not too difficult, a lot of fun, especially for me. I play the roles of the heroes: Julius Caesar, Tolomeo, Radamisto so I'm always playing the older guy and so I never get to play the teenager or be a little mischievous, so I was finding joy in that. Even Sesto in Julius Caesar, I would love to do that one day, but there is just this mischievous nature of Cherubino that's really fun. And what I learned, even in doing Cherubino, is that I think that most people when they approach a role, there is this idea that it must be perfect. I think opposite to that. I think that out of 300 or 400 pages, you can't expect somebody be perfect, but you can expect them to try their best. So, I gave my Cherubino preparation my very best effort. So, hopefully that'll come back at some point.

Marc A. Scorca: Is your passaggio in the music of Cherubino the same as where a mezzo's passagio would be?

John Holiday: Exactly. It's hard for a mezzo to sing Cherubino, I think, too, depending on what kind of mezzo you have singing.

Marc A. Scorca: I didn't realize that it had gone the way of Covid cancellation. Where was it to have been?

John Holiday: It was supposed to be at The Dallas Opera.

Marc A. Scorca: Well, let's hope that it gets back on the boards.

John Holiday: It will, it will. I have all faith that it will.

Marc A. Scorca: Well, continuing in the repertoire realm here: jazz and gospel. Of course, you explained, that was the sound around your house, and yet it is still a rep that you sing. And does it exist in you separate from your opera singing? Or is it all just one artistic repertoire flow?

John Holiday: It is one, because I am one. This is a very good question, and a very good way of asking it. Whenever I am singing, you're not gonna get two different John Holidays, you're gonna get John Holiday. That's why I call my show The John Holiday experience. You are understanding the totality of the person that's in front of you. I wouldn't be 100% authentic with myself, or my audiences, if I did not present them with the whole package that is me, the whole human being that I believe God intends for me to be. And so for me, it is just one. I can flip back and forth between them very easily just because it's what I grew up doing. There's no way of denying that part of my existence and my upbringing. I think I'd be a not-so-nice person if I couldn't have the outlet to do it, because there's so much joy in both. I get so much joy and peace from singing opera, and I get so much joy and peace from singing jazz and gospel and pop and all those things. It's a lot of fun.

Marc A. Scorca: Is it the same joy and peace, or is it a different joy and peace?

John Holiday: There's a difference, because with opera, you have to remember, I'm not a director, so I'm not directing myself, and I'm not the conductor. The conductor is telling me what to do, in a way. And with the jazz and gospel, I get to do that; I get to create on the spot. Well, now the one thing about me when I sing - anybody who's been on stage with me knows this - but anytime, and I'm sure it drives conductors crazy, but I do it anyway, but every night, my ornaments very well, may be different. Because the way I think of ornamentation is the way I think of jazz and gospel music. If I'm feeling something different that day, then my ornament may be different. If I'm feeling a little sad, or really excited, whatever, it may change in the characterization of how I do the ornament. And so with jazz and gospel and pop, I get to influence it from the very beginning to the end. I get to put every ounce of my exploration and adventure into that piece. Not that that doesn't exist in my classical music, it does exist. It's more - I shouldn't say organized - but that's the word that comes to my mind. It's like, it's just more organized. It's like somebody's telling you to go this way, and you gotta be over here by this point, a conductor's waving his or her hands in front of you, and giving you cues, and leading the orchestra, and helping you through. And then with pop, for me, I'm by myself. I'm on the stage really doing my absolute best to give you everything I have, of course, with my own MD and my pianists and band members or whatever. So it is different. I have to say, I feel like there's just like joy rising in everything that I do, but I especially feel that when I am doing my jazz and pop and things like that.

Marc A. Scorca: When I've interviewed Stephanie Blythe, she's talked about how her recital work makes her an autonomous artist. She uses that word autonomous. And she said, "When I do a recital, I choose the repertoire, I choose what I wear, I choose where I move - that it is me making the choices, not a conductor, not a stage director, not a makeup artist, not a costumer: it's me. And that really helps her when she's then on stage working, as you say, you have your own ideas, because you have been an autonomous artist.

John Holiday: Yes, that's so true. I agree with Stephanie very much. I agree with her a hundred percent.

Marc A. Scorca: When I interviewed Ryan Speedo Green, he mentioned that seeing Denyce Graves sing Carmen at The Met was the moment when he thought that he could have a career in opera, because until that moment, he talks about being in The Metropolitan Opera House, and he said, "Clearly, this is not a place I was supposed to be". And then seeing Denyce on stage, he thought, "Maybe this is something; maybe I do belong here. Maybe this is something I can do". You have your own Denyce Graves moment?

John Holiday: I do. I think it was 1997. So, I was 12 years old, and Denyce Graves was in the Houston Grand Opera program at that point in her life, in her journey. And I was in the Fort Bend Boys Choir of Texas, the Tour Choir, which is the performing choir, the top choir. And we were asked to go and sing The Damnation of Faust at Jones Hall, and I think it might have been Maestro Christoph Eschenbach who led that. And Denyce was the soloist for Marguerite. And in the choir, there are two boys soloists (or a boy solo, but they chose two of us boy soloists) who just sing "Marguerite". It's a very simple thing. And I fell in love with Denyce Graves. I saw her in rehearsal. She just showed up. She was so beautiful, so elegant. She spoke elegantly and eloquently. Everything about her was beautiful, from the moment that I saw her, to even when she opened her mouth, and then this sound just came out of her. I thought, "Oh my God, whatever it is that she is doing, I want to do that". And it was in that moment that - Oprah Winfrey says something that I understand now, from that moment, is that God always puts you in every situation where you're supposed to be. I was supposed to be there at that moment, at that time, singing that boy's solo, and hearing her. And then afterward, I remember being so mesmerized by her that I said, "Oh my God, Ms. Graves, I love you, I love you so much, and I love your dresses. Can I see your dresses?" And so she let me - I think there may have been one of the boy in the boys choir with me - she let us go back to her dressing room with her. And I saw all of her costumes, all of her shoes and jewelry. It was just beautiful. And I've been so lucky now to have met her, and to have had a phone call with her. I just think the absolute world of her. She is the person single-handedly who has given me the idea that this was something that was possible for me. So, my biggest dream is that hopefully I'm doing that for someone too.

Marc A. Scorca: Well, Denyce is a model for many, and I know you're teaching, so you are in fact giving back already, this early in your career. So, tell us about you as a teacher. Do you find it rewarding? Do you learn from your teaching?

John Holiday: Oh, yes. I think that any teacher that is worth his or her salt is learning from what they're doing, because, in fact, you have to practice what you preach, and that can be hard. But I love people so much, Marc; I love people. And I especially love mentoring and teaching. It's not always easy. Every now and then, you get a few knuckleheads, but that's to be expected. But I absolutely love teaching and inspiring the next generation of what I know is going to be fantastic singers, teachers, doctors, lawyers, presidents of the United States. You never know who you're teaching, and I love it. I'm very tough on my students because I expect them to do their best. I don't want anybody, as my grandma would say, half steppin'. So, you come in, you're ready to go, you put your best foot forward, and whatever your best is for that day, I'm okay with it, as long as you're trying your best. I love it; I truly do. And I'm lucky to work at a university where I'm valued, and where what I have to say matters and where students come into this school, leaving it better than they entered. I'm at Lawrence University, the Conservatory of Music here. And the dean is just fantastic and so supportive of everything that I do. So I feel really lucky - anointed and appointed to be in the place that I am right now.

Marc A. Scorca: And they're undergraduate students?

John Holiday: They are undergrad students here.

Marc A. Scorca: I'm such a believer that, whether or not you're a professional artist, you can still see the world through the eyes of an artist. And it's so important to study voice if you wanna learn how to sing - to just do it, because you'll see the world differently as a result of investing in the discipline of music.

John Holiday: Oh, totally. I think that's really important. I see it every day. And I think that the beautiful thing about teaching is that because I'm singing where I am singing now, these days, and how I'm singing, my students get to see themselves in me, and I get to see myself in them. And it's not too often that you come across an African American professor of voice, who happens to be singing at most of the major opera houses in the United States, and on the really large stages. So, I'm really proud to be able to be an example for my students and show them what's possible for themselves. I always tell them, and if they're listening and watching, I always say, "You can do any good thing, and this is a great thing". So, I hope that I pass that love and joy and beautiful energy on to my students that my professors gave to me.

Marc A. Scorca: I'm sure you do. Now, we've learned that the production of Figaro is canceled due to Covid. And I do ask artists what in the world did they do to keep themselves busy during Covid? So John, what did you do to keep yourself busy during Covid?

John Holiday: I did this little show called The Voice, and I had the most amazing time of my life. It was unlike anything that I have ever done in my life. I've never done anything like it. It was absolutely organized chaos, insanity, beauty, joy rising, challenging myself, stretching myself, making connections on the biggest and highest of levels, working with someone who I endeavored to sing with long ago. When I was in graduate school, I would drive back and forth between Ohio and Texas listening to John Legend's albums. So to now have worked with John, and to have sung with him, and to have his information and his contact, and I speak with him regularly, that was an incredible moment for me. And I will say it really evolved out of my desire to be able to connect with people during the pandemic. I thought, "Well, I'm not doing anything. Everything that I was doing is canceled". It was the most disheartening thing, which I know many artists have experienced, but I was just getting cancellations left and right. And I felt like, as I said earlier, Marc, I really do truly, truly, truly love people. And if anything more than that, I love sharing the love of God that I have. And I love sharing love. And so I was like, "How can I do that? How can I inspire people right now?" And I was taking all the recitals that everybody was saying, "Would you do a virtual thing?" "Would you do a virtual thing?" I was saying yes to everybody, and I thought, "There's got to be a way that I can connect with people". But one of my dreams in my life was to be the number one countertenor in the world. And so my friend was like, "Well, what's the measurable of that?" I was like, "Maybe if I can be a household name". And that was one of the ways I did it, is by going on The Voice and experiencing that. And then I made it to the top five.

Marc A. Scorca: You sure did.

John Holiday: What a joy it was.

Marc A. Scorca: Did you just pick up a phone and say, "Hi, I'd like to be on The Voice". How did you get it started?

John Holiday: The show has casting producers. They reach out to singers throughout the years. And I also saw a casting notice, but I had been asked to do this, I think, like four or five times. At the time that they were asking, I couldn't do it. I mean, I had so much going on, and I truly did. I was just working and working and working and I thought, "I don't have time to go and do this, although it was exciting. And because of my best friend, Mikai - he also plays the piano for me and my jazz. He's like my brother. He really is. He's like my Gayle. I'm like his Gayle. But anyway, we've been practicing this thing, it's called Regret Minimization. It's something that Jeff Bezos did. And it was looking into when I'm 70 or 80 or 85 years old, will I have regretted not doing this thing that's put in front of me right now? And so when I was asked for the fifth time to go and do the show, I thought, "If I'm 80 years old, and I have never done The Voice, I would regret it, so I'm gonna say yes". I said, "Yes. Okay, okay. I have time. I'm not doing anything else. And this satisfies my desire to connect with people, and maybe I'll become a household name, and then I'll be America's favorite countertenor".

Marc A. Scorca: I think you've gotten there. I think you've gotten there.

John Holiday: I hope so, Marc.

Marc A. Scorca: Now, what did you learn from it? And was there a light bulb moment of, "This is a learning I'm gonna carry for the rest of my life?"

John Holiday: I learned so many things about myself, especially during that final week. I think during that final week, I lost like seven or eight pounds; it was not good. I was so stressed trying to make sure I did everything correctly. But I learned about myself that (and I say this in the most non-pretentious way that I can, and I don't mean to be egotistical at all), I truly can do anything. I really learned that if you, (and it was an example for my students, I think), if you buckle down and you get the thing that's put in front of you, you can learn anything. You can do anything. You can do any good thing. And I learned really how to be very present with people. It was something that I saw John do on many occasions. If Chrissy called him during a filming, while we were in rehearsal or something, he would pick up the phone. And oftentimes, it wasn't Chrissy that was calling, it was her calling for the children to see their father. And I learned from him in that very instant, that nothing is more important - I knew it already, 'cause I am this way - but that nothing is more important than your family. After all the lights are off, when there's no more tickets with your name on it, when you're no longer on a poster, when you're no longer in the lights, at the end of the day, your family is what matters. And so I learned from him, and it's something that I now practice. I didn't do this before, but I practice if anybody from my family is calling and I'm doing something, unless I'm sleeping, I try to pick up. And also just the idea of learning more about stylistic differences, 'cause I learned that from John. And we just had a great time.

Marc A. Scorca: That's fabulous. What a great story. What a great point of learning about family. That's great. What was it like to have a John Holiday Day in Fort Bend County, Texas?

John Holiday: Oh, man, gosh. Sorry, I get kinda emotional thinking about it. I mean, it was really special. Growing up and not being always understood, sometimes even by family, but definitely by children at school, or people in the neighborhood. But also having the opposite of that, having family who did understand me, having friends that did get me, and teachers who did understand. If you asked me to, I probably could name you every single teacher that I had from pre-K all the way through high school, because all of my teachers were so very influential in my life, not just musical teachers, but they all were. But having my own day? I have the declaration over there. I have yet to frame it, but I'm going to frame it. That will forever be John Holiday Day in Fort Bend County, which is a very large county in Texas. Having them to see me. You'll hear me say this a lot today, "See me, they get me, they affirmed me". And what I knew for certain, when I met with the judge, is that they loved me. I have not been ushered around a place like that ever, when everybody just wanted to shake my hand, and take photos with me and just speak to me and say how much what I did, mattered. And I didn't know that I was doing that. I honestly, if you ask me where I'm from, I'm from Rosenberg, Texas. That is where I grew up. That is where my family still is today. That is my home. I drive on down 59, and I get on/off at 762 and I drive down the road, and that's where my family is. And I'm proud to be from Rosenberg, and I'm proud to be a native of Texas, a native of Fort Bend County, and to have made a difference. And more importantly than that, I am proud to show other little Black boys and girls what is possible for them. Rosenberg used to be the country; it's not anymore. But what a little country boy, or a country girl from that part of Texas can grow up to do. There are so many wonderful things that are out there, and if you dream about it, you can do it. You can achieve it and be it. I know that sounds very cliché, and it's probably really funny to people, but it is so true. And I'm so thankful for the love that my county, my city has given to me. I feel supremely blessed and I'm honored in every way.

Marc A. Scorca: You just express it so magnificently. I feel it, and congratulations. And I can't imagine how affirming and what it must feel like to belong so profoundly to your hometown.

John Holiday: I belong to them, and they belong to me.

Marc A. Scorca: And a piece of you belongs to all of us for your fantastic artistry. And we're so, so grateful to you for the way you lift all of us up when you make your music, and quite honestly, how you lift all of us up just by speaking to us tonight. John.

John Holiday: My prayer is to do that, more than anything in the world. We live in a time that can be so dark and so sad. I know that it doesn't cost a penny to be kind, to lift others up, as you yourself want to be lifted up. And if my music can do that for someone, or for many people, then I know I have done my job and I can go to bed at night being proud of what God has given me, because I promised God when I was a little boy, when I would be in church, I would say, "God, I promise you that if you let me do this, I'll never, ever, ever forget to give you the glory and the praise, and I promise you that I'll be a good steward of the gift that you have given to me". And I think I have done that, and I am doing that. So, in everything that I do, I always give God the glory and the honor, and I am proud to be a vessel of joy, of peace, and of love. And so when you come to hear me at operas or recitals, or to do events like this, I hope that you know that you're not alone, that you are loved, and that you don't have to do anything to be loved, other than you are born, and so you are worthy of it. So, I want to say to everyone that's watching, even if I don't know you, I love you and I hope and pray that you all continue to have a great day. And I thank you for all of your support and your love. It has meant, and it does mean the absolute world to me.

Marc A. Scorca: John, amen to that. It's just wonderful to speak with you. I regret we're doing it a distance here. If we were doing this at the Opera Center, I'd take you to dinner around the corner, so I owe you a dinner. Thank you for being with us tonight. Godspeed. Good luck. We can't wait to hear you in person again, soon.

John Holiday: Thank you so much, Marc.